https:\/\/sites.smith.edu\/womens-rites\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/542\/2020\/05\/Episode-5.mp3<\/a><\/audio>\n
\nTranscript<\/h1>\n
[Theme Music]\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Julia: This is \u2018Women\u2019s Rites: A Podcast about Women\u2019s Ordination,\u2019 written and produced by students at Smith College!<\/span><\/p>\n[Theme music]<\/span><\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Julia: Hi, I\u2019m Julia<\/span><\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Sophia: I\u2019m Sophia<\/span><\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Tessa: And I\u2019m Tessa. We\u2019re your hosts for this episode of \u2018Women\u2019s Rites.\u2019<\/span><\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Julia: This season, we are exploring the story of women\u2019s ordination in Community of Christ, a church with a quarter million members and formerly named the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. This denomination began ordaining women in 1985, and, on the 35th anniversary of these first ordinations, we\u2019re taking this season to look back on the journey towards women\u2019s ordination in Community of Christ. To do so, we\u2019ve interviewed women ordained in the first decade after the 1985 policy change, women who went on to be leaders in Community of Christ.<\/span><\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Sophia: Each episode in this series investigates a different topic, and today, we\u2019re going to look at denominational ministry. We will feature women reflecting on their ministry outside the local–conferences, retreats, international leadership gatherings, and leadership of denominational bodies–and hear their memorable stories.<\/span><\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Tessa: We first asked our interviewees about the roles in which they have served the Community of Christ at the denominational level. Charmaine Chvala-Smith talked a bit about her role as an evangelist.<\/span><\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Charmaine Chvala-Smith: And I think it was 2010, I was ordained as an evangelist, which is a minister who brings blessing. T<\/span>hat comes in personal blessing, we have what\u2019s called an evangelist blessing, which is\u2014it has several parts to it, but the idea is that we offer prayer for a person and the different elements in their life, perhaps bringing some insight to them. The way I do it is I usually meet with a person once a month for at least a year, and we talk about their spiritual life, so I\u2019m kind of acting as a spiritual director to them in that time, and we discuss their spiritual journey. And at the end of that time, or sometimes it goes much longer than a year, then I record a prayer, and I lay my hands on their head and offer a prayer of blessing, and that is recorded and then transcribed for them.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Julia: Jane Gardner provided some insight on what holding the role of High Priest signifies in the Community of Christ:<\/span><\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Jane Gardner: In 1992, I was ordained a High Priest, and the difference is that in the office of High Priest, you’re more looking at the World Church\u2014the global Church\u2014and starting to understand how we make a global community and helping people understand that there’s more to life than just inside their small congregation, that there’s things outside of it.<\/span><\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Sophia: Jane spoke more about her experience serving the denomination on a global level:<\/span><\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Jane: I do know that since 2007, I’ve been on World Church Leadership Council, so that’s about 25 people who are the decision-makers, the policy holders, the policy creators for the whole World Church and so that\u2019s been a role I’ve had now since 2007, and I’m one of several women, so we’ve tried, as leaders, we’ve tried really hard to diversify, and so there are women on the Council, there are also people from Africa, people from Honduras, people from Wales, what am I forgetting? Honduras, Africa, Oh from French Polynesia. There\u2019s the woman from French Polynesia. So, it’s pretty, it’s getting more and more diverse and its exciting time to be, not just a woman, but to be helping in the leadership of the denomination\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Tessa: We went on to ask our interviewees to share a memorable experience they had at a denominational conference, retreat, or other event. Charmaine spoke about the support system she found among ordained women at conferences:<\/span><\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Charmaine Chvala-Smith: I think that was one of those things that, especially from about \u201885 to \u201895, was really important, is that ordained women would seek each other out at these kinds of things, at conferences, at mission center conferences, or family camps. So there was this sense of, we can support each other. And among the women who were being ordained, there were some who were very traditional, as in, their thinking of their role as primarily in home and family. And so, for some of them, this was a big stretch for them, and there was a real hesitance, but they felt that it was an honest call, and they had embraced it. There was lots of holding each other up and encouraging each other.<\/span><\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Julia: Linda Booth recounted a time when she organized a groundbreaking event of bonding with restoration branch congregations in Kansas City, who do not support women\u2019s ordination.<\/span><\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Linda Booth: Also, I need to tell you, there were four congregations in the Greater Kansas City area that remained in community of Christ, but did not allow for women to be ordained in their congregations. And those pastors were attending too. And so we sat there and talked we prayed together. We talked. It was a great conversation. And the restoration elder looked at me, he said, Linda, you know, I like you. And I said, Well, I like you too. He said. I said, Would you like to continue to meet? And he said, Yes, I, I think that would be good. So I started a group called the Restoration Reconciliation Committee and once a month, we met. And these were restoration men elders and we got up to be about 30 to 35 that met. And I heard the pain of these men who had been in some cases silenced in the church because of their hateful attitude toward women in the priesthood. And we began to become friends, we prayed together. And we decided to have a worship service because the Restoration and Community of Christ couldn’t worship together any longer because they didn’t believe in women in ordination. And, and the schism was so wide that even family members never worship together after that. So we thought let’s have a restoration hymn festival, and we’ll focus on Jesus Christ. That’s what we have in common. And so there were only a couple places they would agree to have this service. And so we agreed to do it in the Auditorium, which is in Independence which holds 6600 people. And on the night that we gathered for the restoration hymn festival where men and women both participated in leading prayers and scripture when I walked in I was shocked and that evening they counted and they were almost 4,000 people there. They had driven as far away as Michigan and all over the United States to come and worship together because they had not had that experience. So I find it really astounding that a female apostle would have the experience of working with restoration elders to bring together people so that they could worship together for the first time after a very long time.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Sophia: In 2007, Becky Savage was the first woman ordained in Community of Christ\u2019s First Presidency, the highest leadership group in the church. She told us another emotional story about the moment she was recognized in that office along with other women being ordained to be denominational leaders at the Community of Christ\u2019s World Conference.<\/span><\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Becky Savage: So they read these into the record and so he reads this out to the whole world conference, this is in that chamber that seats 6,000 people, this is all the delegates that gather from around the world church:<\/span><\/p>\n\u2018We celebrate with all the sisters of the church another step in the long journey towards equal regard and opportunity in the church and in society. While this is not the final step, it is a significant step. From this point forward, there should be no question or hesidency regarding the appropriateness or capacity of women to serve in any leadership or administral role in the church at any level of church organization.\u2019<\/span><\/i><\/p>\nWe look forward to serving you to the best of our ability as we fulfill the duties and functions of the first presidency.<\/span><\/i> [Becky gets emotional here]<\/span> But first let us pause and express appreciation and respect for all the women who looked for the day and worked for this day and sacrificed for this day before ever seeing possible that a day such as this could happen.\u2019<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Tessa: Finally, our interviewees shared some experiences of backlash and exclusion they faced at conferences and retreats due to their gender. Becky reflected on a particularly hurtful experience as a new member of the First Presidency, not long after her ordination, a contrast to the joyful moment you just heard.<\/span><\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Becky: The members of the First Presidency of which there are three, president and 2 counselors, I\u2019m one of the counselors to the president of the church, and we\u2019re considered the presidency. So when there are assignments out we try to share those assignments, and one of the kinds of assignments that we take are when there are big celebrations of church, when there\u2019s a congregation, I won\u2019t say where, celebrating a big significant like 130th year of that congregation, and they generally would have a member of the first presidency come for that celebration. President Veazey had been scheduled for that. He had a conflict. President Shaw who was the second member of the presidency was not available, and so they offered that I could come, and I was free to come. And usually though for those kinds of assignments you get a call from if not the pastor the mission center president saying \u201cthis is what we would like you to do for that day, and we\u2019re happy to have you come.\u201d Well it\u2019s getting like a week, ten days before that event and I\u2019ve not heard anything. So I called the mission center president and say \u201cI\u2019ve not heard anything, what\u2019s going on?\u201d and all I got was \u201cum, um um.\u201d And I said \u201cOkay, is there an issue because I\u2019m a female?\u201d and I got, \u201cYes.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Julia: Becky also wasn\u2019t afraid to stand up for equal treatment of ordained women. She disclosed one particularly amusing moment of confrontation after receiving a demeaning remark:<\/span><\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Becky: So the first part of that conference, we have a receiving line as a first presidency where people can come greet us, one gentleman came through that line and his comment was, \u201cI\u2019m so glad we have for the first time a wife in the first presidency.\u201d And, to which I said, \u201cOh, no we don\u2019t!\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Sophia: Charmaine leaves us with an intriguing thought about why some people, particularly men, have struggled to accept women\u2019s ordination in the Community of Christ:\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Charmaine Chvala-Smith: The times of not being accepted tended to be more awkward than they were hurtful, and that was\u2014I really think, having been in the Michigan region as people were struggling with starting to accept ordination of women was really helpful. Because I could mostly see that these were not mean people. They were not people who wanted to harm, but they were just struggling so hard with their own preconceptions of who God was and maybe the maleness of God, and maybe for some, unrecognized assumptions that men were better than women, or more religious, or more spiritual. They couldn\u2019t probably put words to that yet, but it was making some men especially feel like they weren\u2019t as special as they thought they were.<\/span><\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Tessa: While there are differences in the demoninational roles and experiences ordained women have as we have highlighted in this episode, what remains similar are common experiences between these women is resiliance in the face of gender discrimination and finding support among others.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n <\/p>\n
In our next episode of \u2018Women\u2019s Rites,\u2019 we\u2019ll look at the topic of interfaith ministry and feature women reflecting on their interactions across denominational lines.<\/span><\/p>\n <\/p>\n
[Theme Music]<\/span><\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Julia: That concludes our podcast for today. Special thanks to Charmaine Chvala-Smith, Jane Gardner, Linda Booth and Becky Savage.<\/span><\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Sophia: Also, thanks to Dan Bennett, Travis Grandy and Yasmin Eisenhauer of the Smith Learning, Research, and Technology Team. Thanks to Rachel Killebrew of Community of Christ Library Archives.<\/span><\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Tessa: And thanks to the Andrew Mellon Foundation that supports public-facing student writing at Smith College. Tune in next time on \u2018Women\u2019s Rites\u2019!<\/span><\/p>\n <\/p>\n
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